Hi, Sweetpea. Hi, Mummy Bear. We have a chit chat. We do. We have episode 80 with Stephanie Haffety.

 I was waiting for you to say it. All right. Awkward pause. You can have that. Yes, this is

 with Stephanie Haffety. She was on Gardeners’ World back in 2022 on the winter specials

 episode four. I wasn’t even born. You weren’t even born yet. Just a twinkle in your mother’s eye.

 You wish. I wish. But back to Stephanie and on Gardeners’ World, she was giving a master

 class in growing food for year-round harvests. Exactly. So we were delighted that she could

 join us. We were really looking forward to speaking with her. And it took quite a while

 to get there because we did first make contact with Stephanie back in October last year.

 I know. And we all had scheduling conflicts. We had four attempts at this on the first

 occasion. Stephanie’s headphones wouldn’t charge. The second time we had to postpone

 because your boss wanted you to come in early on that day. So we weren’t able to do it.

 And that was when you were just embarking on your summer job endeavours and adventures.

 Yeah, exactly. And the next time it clashed with an appointment that Stephanie had. And

 finally we got talking in mid-August. We did. And we had a few tech problems or more

 there weren’t tech problems as such. We didn’t have Stephanie’s full buy-in, shall we say,

 in terms of what tech we were using. So it might have altered the mood a little.

 And then towards the end or part way through, certainly poor Stephanie got a cramp in her leg,

 didn’t she? Really bad cramp. She suddenly leapt into the air. I know. Very agile.

 Tatha stood behind her chair and did the rest of the podcast standing doing various lunges.

 Yeah, exactly. Which was quite difficult when you’re kind of asking questions.

 She disappears out of view. And you’re like lunge to stage right,

 lunge to stage left. Okay. Yeah. But we got there in the end.

 In terms of noises, just a creaking chair, but otherwise we are fairly clear.

 We are. And as always, we have some links for some of the things we talked about. So

 we have Stephanie’s book, a link to that on our website. We have a link to there was

 Fowler. She references the Stinking Rose in San Francisco, which happily does still exist.

 So we’ve got a link to that. And also where you can find Stephanie’s Marquess of

 Anglesey’s Peach. So we’ve got a link to the provider of that, the nursery for that.

 Cool. Also, you can catch Stephanie at Gardner’s World Autumn Fair on Saturday,

 the 12th of September. So not long now, a couple of weeks away. She’ll be there in

 I think her talk is at 10.30 in the morning. So if you do want to catch up with Stephanie,

 then head on over to the Gardner’s World Autumn Fair.

 Fantastic. Our website is notjustagarden.co.uk.

 Go to podcasts, chit chats, click on Stephanie’s face and there you have it.

 Wham bam. You’ve got it. Thank you, ma’am.

 So Sweetpea, what’s the format?

 So for Stephanie’s dream garden, we have garden boundary, shadow greenhouse,

 five fundamentals, five edibles, one statement tree, ponder pool plus one plant. And finally,

 favourite seating area, drink and one plot for the area.

 And if you have any questions or comments on anything we’ve chatted about,

 please do get in touch. You can do that either through the contacts page on our website at

 notjustagarden.co.uk or you can email us on our new email address, which is hello

 at notjustagarden.co.uk. That took me by surprise.

 You’ve got to say it. So shall we jump into this episode,

 Sweetpea? I think we should.

 This is episode 80, A Good Old Chit Chat with Stephanie Hafferty.

 Off we go.

 Welcome Stephanie to Good Old Chit Chat.

 Hello.

 How are you?

 Hot.

 You’ve been out in the garden.

 I’ve been out since early getting everything done before it gets too hot here.

 We’re having our weather peak today. I think it goes into England tomorrow.

 So I think we should explain. We’re looking at mid-August for this episode,

 this recording, and we have just had another heatwave announced, haven’t we, in the UK?

 So it’s here today.

 You’re in Wales?

 Yeah.

 Whereabouts are you in Wales?

 Ceredigion, so on the west coast, sort of middle-ish.

 Is that high ground or is that…?

 I’m a bit high up. The hill goes much higher than this, but yeah, I’m on raised ground.

 Okay. And so you’re still experiencing the severe droughts that we’re having across Wales and England?

 There’s been a drought in Wales for I think maybe 10 days now, the whole of Wales.

 Right. So you’re on a half-acre small holding there.

 How have you been coping and handling all the heatwaves and all the droughts?

 Fortunately, we’ve had a hosepipe ban, but fortunately that doesn’t include

 edible plants grown under cover. I’ve got ducks, it doesn’t include them.

 It doesn’t include edibles growing in pots, so I’m still able to water under cover and pots.

 So that’s your polytunnel.

 Yeah, I’ve got two polytunnels.

 Everything else, quite a lot of things are frazzled.

 Some things are fine, some things aren’t. Some things are going over really early.

 I’ve given up on my raspberries. They’re just getting stripped by the birds and

 I won’t die if I don’t eat raspberries. The birds probably will.

 The birds are systematically going through the apple trees in the orchard because they’re

 desperate. The brooks here where Wales is wet and Wales isn’t wet at the moment.

 I think some things, my leeks, I haven’t even planted the leeks out.

 They’re still in the nursery bed. That should have been done weeks ago,

 but I’ve been working away a lot and there’s not been a time where I think I could water them in

 and leave them for a few days because of the dryness and the heat. They just keel over.

 So yeah, it’s a challenge. I’ve mulched why I can, but we shall see.

 Japanese wineberries are fine. They seem to like it, but other things are miserable.

 So you mentioned that you’ve been aware a lot. You’re on a book tour at the moment?

 Yes, I’ve been promoting my book. I’ve just got back from Manchester and that was a family party.

 I’d love to talk about your book in a moment, but when you are away traveling

 extensively like that and you have your small holding, do you have an automated system for

 watering or are you relying on neighbours? Not neighbours, no. So at the moment, my youngest son

 is at home. So he’s been watering the ducks and also anything in the greenhouse.

 So when I go away for much longer, he has to water things in pots too.

 So things in sea trays and module trays, they need watering every day in this weather.

 Otherwise, that’s it. They’ll be dead by the next day. If he’s not about, I have someone I hire

 to come and stay here because with ducks, it’s cats. You can come in and feed once a day.

 Ducks, you’ve got to let them out. You’ve got to put them back in. It’s much more…

 Right, they’re higher maintenance than the cats.

 Yeah, and cats won’t get eaten by foxes. Ducks will. So yeah, that’s what happens.

 Any dogs? No. Ducks and cats.

 Ducks and cats and plants are enough.

 Yeah, that’s plenty to be getting on with. So we mentioned your books. You have three books

 that you’ve written. Your latest one, The Productive Garden and a central guide

 towards self-sufficiency. That’s it, that’s the one.

 Can you tell us about that? Yeah, so it’s basically a book

 showing people how to grow their own food on many different scales. So I’ve grown,

 I’ve been growing in one way or another for nearly 40 years. So whether that’s,

 you know, a few pots of tomatoes to half an acre like I have here.

 So it’s how to grow your own food, different scales year round. That’s the other thing

 because I got into growing food primarily on a bigger scale. So, you know, like allotment

 sized and more because I was skin three kids on my own and it made a huge difference to our

 budget and also our health because we’re eating a lot of really good food. And

 so I’ve got a lot of experience doing that and growing year round is really important

 because there’s a lot we can grow in the UK throughout the winter, even in,

 you know, very cold areas like parts of Scotland. And I think often people

 feel that by the autumn, that’s it. Whereas now, middle of August, September

 are key sowing times for many things for growing right through the winter, next spring

 and beyond. So the books got a lot of information about that. And then also

 what to do with the things that you grow, ways of preserving and ways of making things

 for the home or the body. So it’s, as I said, it’s towards self-sufficiency. No one

 can really be self-sufficient unless they’ve got a lot of land and a private income

 because there’s always things that you have to pay for. And so most of us are sort of

 as self-sufficient as you possibly can be within your circumstances. So my daughter

 lives in Ealing and she has a balcony and windowsills where she’s growing. And

 yes, so the book has also one of the key things that I’m passionate about is growing

 in harmony with wildlife. So it’s sustainable gardening. So it’s ways of growing with the

 wildlife. So for example, I mentioned I’m leaving the raspberries, now the birds can have those

 because it’s all about balance. I’m putting out dishes of water every single day, topping them

 up, primarily actually for the wasps. The wasps are desperate. But whatever, even the local

 cats are coming here for a drink now. They’re not my cats. Let’s go there, have a nice drink,

 we’ll go off and hunt. So it’s a lot how to care for your soil. And it’s all about how to

 do things affordably. I’m very much not about having to buy loads and loads of stuff.

 Throwing money at it.

 Exactly. I mean, there’s certain things that it’s really worth buying

 good, well, properly like car tyres, you want the best car tyres you can afford,

 because that’s the safety thing. But there’s a lot of myths about if you want to grow your own,

 you’ve got to spend all this money on the latest gizmo and my books about how to do it

 for as little as possible.

 Oh, perfect. So you mentioned your daughter’s place in Ealing. She’s got a balcony. So

 your book covers something of that size.

 It certainly you could use it in that situation. And the recipes in there, you can use even if

 you don’t have a garden, you know, you can get it from your local market or use or a community

 garden. Yeah, so there’s it’s accessible, I think to most people, probably not much use

 if you’re a farmer. But apart from that, they probably got other books. Yeah, they’ve

 And when you talk about kind of being in harmony with nature, you kind of thinking about not

 having monocultures thinking about planting like five different things in per bed and

 things like that.

 More than five. Yeah. Yeah. So definitely. So growing in polycultures, which is the

 permaculture word for what we might have thought of as cottage gardening into planting.

 It’s just a traditional way people have been doing it for millennia, as long as we’ve been

 growing as a species intentionally rather than just foraging. We’ve grown in these

 polycultures, and it works so much better because you’ve got biodiversity above the

 soil, but also below the soil with all the different root systems feeding the

 soil life, the fungi, etc. There’s a few exceptions. So I’m setting up some brassica

 beds for overwintering. And these are two that are being netted against butterflies.

 I have brassicas elsewhere in the garden full of holes for the butterflies to lay their eggs on.

 And those, the interplanting in there will be anything that doesn’t flower. So lettuce,

 spinach, dill. Well, dill does flower when it goes to seed, but you know, while you’re

 harvesting it. And that’s because it’s under a mesh, the pollinators can’t get in.

 And I think it would be really sad for a bee to come along and see a flower and they

 can’t get to it. So there’s a few things where you’re looking at the situation

 and deciding what’s best there. But yeah, it looks, at the moment though, it makes it look,

 it’s looking a bit sad because all my calendula and borage has gone really crispy

 because it’s just the heat. Exactly. But it’s still shading the soil. It’s still

 providing habitat. It’s a living mulch, isn’t it? Yeah. So with polycultures,

 one of the things that I remember when I first set out with gardening and Sweepy and I had the

 books that would say, you’ve got to avoid planting this vegetable with that one because

 they beat each other’s throats kind of attitude towards it. You’ve got those that

 get on well with each other and then those that don’t. When you’re doing a polyculture

 and you’ve got five or as you say, many more in one bed, are you adhering to those

 rules and inverted commas or does that not even come into play?

 It doesn’t even come into it. Years ago, I got really into companion planting and I got the

 books and I got charts and I ended up so anxious about this being next to that.

 It’s stressful, isn’t it? I actually, I realized I wasn’t planting anything.

 We were going like way back and I thought, well, I’ve just got to get it in the ground

 or else it’s going to die. And my neighbour who’d been growing forever thought I was crackers

 and was very kind about it, like just get them in. And I think for sure there’s an element with

 it, but most of us haven’t got the space or the time to concern ourselves too much.

 Looking at it practically, so if you’ve got something very tall, don’t put something

 behind it that needs sunlight, put it in front. If you’ve got something that scrambles,

 don’t put that next to your lettuce bed because that will get smothered.

 So there’s that kind of companions. There’s certainly the benefits of plants that attract

 beneficial predators, that kind of thing. That makes a huge difference because that’s

 all about balancing predators and prey in your garden and creating a healthy biodiversity.

 But some of them also are a bit of a myth, such as nasturtiums.

 And I’ve got a brilliant photo of a lovely Savoy cabbage completely full of holes and behind

 it are the nasturtiums with nary a nibble, completely immaculate. So no, I think it’s

 like another thing and there are some rules I think that are really helpful, such as don’t use

 slug pellets. Don’t use peat-based composts, things that are rules if you like, but it’s

 about creating a healthy environment and other stuff. It’s about confusing people

 and possibly even gatekeeping knowledge of like, if you don’t do it this way, you’re doomed.

 You know, you just want to grow something. So no, I don’t do that particularly at all.

 That’s reassuring.

 The only thing I also don’t do much crop rotation kind of everywhere.

 I was just going to ask exactly that.

 Yeah, but there’s a few exceptions, obviously. So carrot root fly,

 if you’ve got carrot root fly, you wouldn’t put anything of the carrot family in that bed

 for a year because they overwinter in the soil. Onion, allium, white rot. Again,

 that needs an extended period without alliums in the soil. And club root. That’s another

 one. Don’t put your brassicas in that bed. I haven’t got club roots, so it’s not an issue.

 So there’s a few exceptions.

 So a bit of rotation is needed.

 But mostly I don’t bother because I’m into planting so many different varieties.

 It’s not going to make any difference. And certain,

 sort of like the Shumei, Japanese natural agriculture, they actually believe as part of

 things should always go in the same bed because you’ve put the tomatoes in the same place every

 year and you’ve got the right microbes in the soil. They’re waiting to welcome the tomatoes.

 And that’s their way of doing it.

 All right. So really they’re no rules. Just such and see.

 Common sense and be nice to things, I think.

 Be nice to things. Exactly.

 You mentioned you’ve got seedlings and now’s the time to have your seedlings

 on the go ready for winter crops. What sorts of things are you growing now?

 Do you have seedlings?

 So the seedlings, it’s actually a really long list. It’s on my social media. I handwrite

 a list every month and put it up. It’s my anti-AI thing. So it’s definitely me. Look,

 I’ve written it. And so some of the things are different salads,

 um, kales, trying to remember what’s in there. Florence fennel. I’ve done

 some bush beans, some dwarf French beans, but they’re already in the ground. That was

 a couple of weeks ago. They’re for the polytunnel and that will be an autumn crop.

 Radicchios and chicories, spinach, there’s loads.

 And these?

 Coming to 18th of August, August sowing onions for overwintering.

 So I’ve got Augusta and winteria. I’ve never grown winteria before. So those are sown

 around the 18th of August and then planted out in the garden. And so you’ll get a bigger,

 earlier crop of bulbing onions.

 They’re going in the garden, not in the polytunnel?

 The winteria are going outside. Most things are both polytunnel and outside. So you can

 grow. Back in the day when I didn’t have polytunnels, I was growing salads throughout

 the winter under fleece. So you don’t need to have polytunnels to grow through the winter.

 You can make a cloche using whatever you’ve got that will make a cloche frame.

 And then heavy duty, clear polythene, horticultural fleece, make it cozy when

 we get into autumn and the nights get cool again.

 Yeah, sure. What sort of temperatures are you getting and what’s your range from frost?

 I don’t really know. It’s kind of, we’ve had such a weird five years, haven’t we?

 The first year I was here, or was it the second year, it was minus 12 in the polytunnel.

 I don’t know what it was outside, but we didn’t have water for days because the pipes froze.

 So usually it gets kind of cold. You get some cold weather, some snow. It’s not as cold

 as my son who lives in Stirling and it’s not as mild as it was when I lived in Somerset.

 But I think one thing we can’t really say these days is this is what it’s going to

 be like. One big difference I noticed is in the autumn in Wales, it’s like a kind of off switch

 in the autumn. It gets far more misty and a bit darker, whereas in the summer we’ve got a

 bit more day than other places on the West Coast. What will happen this year? I don’t

 know because there’s usually so much moisture in the ground that makes that damp. So drying

 beans, I put beans, most of my beans, for drying in polytunnels purely and simply to keep the rain

 off. And of course I haven’t needed that this year. So who knows? Who knows? Well, we are

 going into some unprecedented times, aren’t we, with the Super El Nino? Yeah, so that’s the

 other thing. Yeah, so apparently that’s going to make the winter very wet. But again, this

 is what the climatologists, etc. are projecting. No one’s quite sure. But as far as I’m aware,

 what normally happens with the Super El Nino is the countries that are hotter and drier anyway,

 that becomes a lot worse. It’s a real problem for them. So I think we could be maybe

 getting like moaning about the weather a lot, but in other places it could be catastrophic

 from what seems to be being said. So what took it? You moved from Somerset to Wales back in

 2021. Was the move, was the land anything to do with the move? The move was because I was

 getting out of a very bad situation. Okay. So and I was looking for somewhere to go.

 And I obviously had a finite amount of money with this is how much equity I had in the

 house. This is how much mortgage I could get. And at the time, I’ve got three kids, my two boys

 were still undergraduate. So I needed to get somewhere that was home for them, particularly

 as it was during the COVID times. So they kept being sent back from uni and all of that.

 So I needed, I wanted enough garden that I didn’t need to get an allotment as well.

 And I needed a three bedroom property. So it was looking at what I could find and what I could

 afford. And this one felt it had room for polytunnels, which was pretty important,

 very important in Wales. So yeah, it was just, but it was in a, it was in a bit of a rush.

 Right. Okay. And it all worked out well?

 As far, yeah, as far as anything in life works out well, there’s always positives and negatives

 up until this summer. You know, we, at winter and spring, we all grew webbed feet here, but

 I’m on a hill drains away. It’s actually not a problem at all. It just, you’re just a bit

 like, oh, I’m going to, I’m going outside. I’ve got this waterproof, full length black

 cape. It’s one of those ones you could put between trees if you’re doing survival skills.

 And I wear that when I do the ducks, that and my wellies, I keep dry. It terrifies them.

 My son said, what is this? Well, I look like the grim reaper.

 The Bigfoot. I mean, there’s a lot to be said for higher ground. We’ve spoken to a

 few people who are possibly, I don’t know what the elevation is there, but who are

 possibly higher ground in the Black Mountains, for example. And it’s a good place to be right

 now. And we’re hearing that somewhere like the Peak District, for example, is with all the

 climate change is a great place to be. So ideal. Wales is very enticing with what we have on

 the doorstep. So it’s a good place to be. Yes, except it’s looking very, normally my

 view is very green. One thing I’ve noticed driving around a lot over the past few weeks

 is the trees changing colour everywhere. Early autumn. Rowan berries, bright red, far too early.

 Interesting times. You mentioned earlier about your list of winter seedlings and AI proofing it.

 Now, obviously you write books. We’ve been hearing more and more about, and also you

 AI sort of taking over the writing world. We’re hearing about it taking over the garden design

 world. How are you combating that in terms of what you rely on for income with the writing

 and garden designing? How are you navigating that? It’s a difficult one because for sure

 it is making a difference. I mean, I’m lucky that I’ve been doing it long enough that people

 know that I am actually writing it. I’m a member of the Society of Authors and there’s

 a programme there which you sign up to be like, my work is human authored, which is absolutely

 bonkers that we have to do this kind of thing. It’s definitely making a difference. So

 things like a column about what I’m doing now, that wouldn’t be affected by AI because it’s

 my perspective and my experience. As in anybody who does what I do, not just me personally,

 but it definitely is making a difference. Work is going across the board. Work with garden

 designers, going, going, losing. Yeah. So you’ve got young people not being able to get jobs

 at entry level because that work’s gone to AI or it’s gone to somebody else who’s using AI

 to do the work that this junior would have done in writing a lot. I mean, I’m seeing

 articles and there’s no author, there’s no one who’s written it or you’re reading what’s

 written and it’s like, this actually, it’s just, I mean, I studied literature for my degree. I

 used to be an English teacher so I’ve always been interested in words and it’s affecting

 that with garden design. I mean, three gardens at Chelsea designed by AI for goodness sake,

 but certainly you’ve got people, I’ve been turning down edible garden design apps wanting

 me to partner with them and I’ve been turning it down because it’s a bit like,

 okay, I partner with you so you can take my work. So you’ve got people who are using an

 app to design their edible garden rather than getting a consultant on bigger scales as well.

 So it’s a problem. It’s one of the many problems of now.

 So what’s the answer for, you mentioned young people who are trying to get into

 garden design, for example, where do they go? The last one I spoke to was at Kew, but

 I was talking about this with somebody who’s in a different field to me, but again,

 being affected by AI and other things. There are other things causing problems at the moment.

 Not just that. It’s kind of a whole bouquet of issues and I think we don’t have the answer

 at the moment. It’s all happening very, very rapidly and there seems to be no joined up

 thinking about, okay, you give all this work to AI, 11 billion data centres across the UK.

 We know what’s happening in areas in the United States with data centres.

 They’re causing serious problems. But there’s no… What happens to the people who are losing

 work in a time where food prices are going through the roof? All prices are going through

 the roof. You put petrol in the car and you practically need to take out another mortgage.

 There’s all these things going on and a lot of work across the board

 disappearing for various reasons and AI is one of them. But I don’t know the answer.

 Aspects of AI, obviously like anything, it’s not all bad. There’s apparently in medical research

 because you can go through huge amounts of information very quickly. It could be phenomenal,

 but then again, we’ve also got people wearing glasses, a bit like the ones I’m wearing,

 and they’re recording people, which is creepy. But you’re not wearing meta glasses.

 I wouldn’t wear meta glasses if I was paid. Again, if I had… These aren’t either by the

 way. No, but I was just thinking, oh my God. But if you’ve got partially suited meta

 glasses, that kind of AI glasses, God send, because it can give you information about

 where you are. It can enhance mobility. If you’re a pervert, God send. You can pervert

 even more. I don’t know the answer. Vegetables. Sit in the garden and grow vegetables is the

 answer. I think it’s a big topic obviously and we’ve heard different views

 about it. We’ve heard some people saying, well, yeah, you just got to get on board with it. So

 we now as God designers are starting to use all the AI tools. I saw that on a Facebook group

 not so long ago. It was very much about, well, we were fearful of it initially, but we then

 went to a talk and they said, you’ve got to get with the program. It’s here to stay.

 But it makes it very, very difficult because already the job market is small and then you’re

 producing it even more by having computers come in and take over. It’s a tough one, isn’t it?

 Yeah, I’m not fearful of it. I asked the question because I’m looking at Sweetpea,

 who’s at university, and it’s her generation and her contemporaries who are really having

 to reconsider what they’re going to do for their future career, which they were

 initially thinking, well, I’m going to do that for the rest of my life, but now what?

 No, it’s incredibly, incredibly difficult. Yeah. Are you able to use it to your benefit?

 I don’t use it at all. Apart from bits where it’s unavoidable. So if you’re googling

 how to make blah, blah, blah, they scrape people’s recipes and you’ve got that bit

 at the top, but I always skip it and go to the next bit. No, I don’t use it.

 As I say, I can see there are advantages in many situations, but with my work,

 I don’t want to, I don’t need it in that respect because what I do isn’t about,

 I can’t even think what AI could do for me. Someone did to try it out for me.

 They went on one of them about promoting my book and they said, okay, we’ll put it in for

 you to show me how useful AI is, blah, blah, blah. And then they read out the answer. So

 they said, but I’m doing all that already. And I think it’s important to use your

 brain in your imagination. And if, if let’s say I’m using it to create Instagram content

 for the sake of argument, I know a lot of people do that. That’s what they want. Fair play.

 But we’re all going to end up doing the same things. There’s going to be nothing that’s

 unique. There’s going to be no interesting, quirky perspectives because everybody’s doing

 butternut squash growing challenges or whatever the thing is. So I’ve never

 used it at all. I know other people who like it.

 I think you’re right about how you, you know, you’re not, we’re going to stop using our brain

 so much. And it puts us in an even more vulnerable position if we’re not actually

 functioning as best we can, because we’re just relying on pressing a few buttons and all the

 are given to us. It’s an interesting one. It’s a conundrum.

 Yeah. Well, fortunately, you don’t need it to grow vegetables. So absolutely.

 Right. Stephanie, let’s have a look at your dream garden. So to start off with,

 what would be the garden boundary?

 It would be a walled garden.

 About an acre.

 An acre? Okay.

 That’ll do.

 You’ve thought about this.

 So a walled acre. So that sounds quite a formal.

 Not inside. The boundary is formal.

 The boundary is formal. It is high, keeping AI on the other side.

 And the zombie apocalypse.

 The zombie apocalypse. They’re all on the other side.

 Keep it all out. How high are we talking then?

 Oh, not well, a reasonable height. Not so high it blocks out the sun.

 Yeah, okay. Yeah, you took one at that high.

 But you want a good height because it’s going to have the espaliered fruit bushes and things.

 What about views?

 Views. But you can’t see it because you’re in the garden. There’s a wall.

 Yeah, so that’s what I’m saying. You don’t want views. You want someone who relies on

 being able to see the horizon, for example.

 I like it here, but in my walled garden, I did actually. Years ago, I worked in a

 for the then owner. It’s now the Newt in Somerset where all the apples are.

 If you ever go there, that was where I worked.

 Did they sponsor Chelsea?

 They did, yeah. Well, the owner of the Newt did, I suppose, rather than the Newt.

 I don’t really know. But anyway, that was at an angle and you could see just the views from

 there. Yeah. I mean, in other ways, if your land is sloping.

 Yeah, so exactly. This was sloping. So yeah, we’ll have it on a slope so I can see

 the zombies coming on the horizon and get ready.

 Assuming the zombies haven’t turned up yet, so you’ve got a rather lovely view.

 What sort of things do you want to be looking at? Do you want to be in Wales,

 for example? Do you want to be seeing the sea? Do you want to be in another country?

 I like quite bleak landscapes. I’m originally from Yorkshire.

 So yeah, bleak landscapes.

 Yeah. Okay, that’s a new one.

 Imagine me in my long dress, wuthering.

 Yes. Wuthering heights, yeah.

 In your long waterproof.

 Yeah, exactly. I’m in wellies.

 What stone are we going for? Are we going bricks, limestone?

 Well, we’ll have Welsh stone because I really like it here.

 What’s Welsh stone like?

 It’s grey.

 So are we going bleak and bleak?

 I’m getting the theme. Okay, bleak and grey.

 And you don’t want to see the sea or anything? Do you want to see mountains?

 Well, we can see the sea right in the distance, yeah.

 You can see the sea. Can you see the sea from your place?

 No. Well, you can if you go right to the top of the hill

 and it’s a really, really clear day. It’s a pinprick on the horizon.

 Okay, lovely. But in your dream garden, you’re going to be nearer.

 Yeah. But not too near. Otherwise, it’s difficult to grow.

 Because of the salt air?

 Okay, cool.

 And the winds?

 And the winds. And the zombies are then on ships and they’re the worst ones.

 You don’t want them. They’re Viking zombies.

 The Viking ones are the worst, I’ve heard.

 Yeah, even worse.

 Then would you like a shed or a greenhouse in your dream garden?

 I’m having both.

 One or the other?

 You have to have both.

 Okay, if you’re surrounded by zombies and they’re holding a knife to your throat,

 they say one or the other. Which one are you going to choose?

 I’m going to have a greenhouse with a shed end.

 Yeah, you can do that. A sheen house?

 A sheen house.

 Obviously, you want somewhere for growing and somewhere for putting your weapons.

 Storing all your weapons.

 Your knuckle dusters?

 No, no, I’ve got a really, really long pruner.

 It’s super long with a kind of chainsaw thing on the end.

 Oh my word. That’s handy, isn’t it?

 Very.

 Do you have to charge that up beforehand, though?

 Yes, but the batteries have a really long lifespan.

 You’re not just going to be going, stop, need to charge the batteries.

 Yeah, you don’t.

 You could wait 40 to 45 minutes.

 I’ll make sure that there’s a few charged up as well, always. I need power, definitely.

 So you want those charging in your sheen house?

 Yeah.

 Where do you charge things at the moment?

 I’m not going to say because then the burglars will come and steal my weapons, won’t they?

 Your wrapper.

 They’ll know where I keep my…

 The batteries are really expensive.

 So let’s say, we’re talking hypothetically, if you had a battery-powered tool,

 are you happy leaving lithium batteries in the house?

 Does that concern you and you leave them in an outbuilding?

 What’s your general feel about that?

 I’m asking from a personal perspective. I have a lot of battery-powered tools.

 I read about lithium batteries and all the…

 And you get it with e-bikes, don’t you?

 E-bikes, Teslas.

 I think it’s like anything. If it’s from a reputable company,

 when you know that it’s been properly tested, then those things are generally safer

 than something that’s been bought from some random place online.

 If my long thing with the chainsaw at the end had been bought from dodgygeezer.com,

 I wouldn’t keep that in the house, no.

 But I’m not going to say whether or not it’s safe because that’s not my area of expertise.

 But in terms of your personal feel about it,

 it’s not something that keeps you awake at night.

 No, I don’t want to say because that’s not in my sphere of what I recommend.

 I recommend how to grow food, not where to store batteries.

 I’d talk to somebody who’s a scientist specialising in batteries for that.

 In your sheen house, are you a very tidy shed person or are you just whack it in?

 Normally, I’m reasonably tidy. A tidy person wouldn’t think it was tidy.

 Behind me, you can see this, this is because I’m dismantling the kitchen

 to decorate it so the kitchen’s in here.

 This is not tidy, this is untidy.

 I like to know where everything is with the tools and what have you,

 but sometimes everything gets shoved in because it’s about to rain.

 And you’ve got to be quick.

 In your greenhouse part of it,

 I want to know kind of what style of greenhouse are you having beds in the ground or…

 Do I get a polytunnel?

 I mean, you can have a polytunnel if you…

 Can I have one as well?

 No, instead of…

 No, it’s going to have to be greenhouse or polytunnel.

 Right, so the greenhouse is going to be one of those massive ones

 that they had in large estates made out of wood or metal

 with all the vents and everything that you need.

 And I would have then a mixture of beds and also propagating benches.

 Okay, beds and staging, cool.

 And what colour frame do you want?

 Do you want it to be painted a colour?

 Should we have maybe a nice blue?

 We’ll go nicely with the grey of the stone.

 So the shed end would be all painted in blue as well then?

 That can be wood, wood colour.

 And then are you someone who has lots of pelargoniums,

 aeoniums, any plants that kind of live permanently,

 kind of not always, they come out in the summer,

 but you know what I mean, in the greenhouse.

 I have five pelargoniums and they’re currently having their holiday outside

 and they come in there, live on the windowsill and the rest of them know.

 Okay, so you would have…

 Pelargoniums because you can eat them and make potions from them.

 Oh, interesting.

 Yeah, the scented leaf pelargoniums.

 Oh, lovely. What varieties do you have?

 I’ve got an atta of roses, I’ve got an orange one

 and I can’t remember what the other three are.

 I’d have to look at the labels.

 Well then, that brings me on to the next part,

 which is what would be your five favourite ornamentals?

 So I like flowery shrubby things,

 but I don’t tend to choose to grow them particularly,

 so they’d have to have a use,

 particularly if you’re not allowing me a greenhouse.

 So I would want an edible magnolia.

 Does that count as an ornamental?

 Yeah, it can be.

 So one of the edible varieties of magnolias,

 you’ve got that lovely colour in the spring.

 Yeah, very pretty.

 So I had a list and I put it in a safe place

 I can’t remember where it is.

 We’ve all done that.

 It’s like my safe place.

 Yeah, it’s like your safe place.

 Mulberry.

 Oh, lovely, yes.

 Quince, Medler and rhubarb,

 which is, you know, structure and sculpture.

 Yeah, it’s gorgeous.

 I would personally have it.

 And you can hide under the leaves where the zombies come.

 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

 You can even better if you have a gun or a plant.

 Yeah, but they’re not quite so good in a crumble, are they?

 This is true.

 What were you going to say, Sweetpea?

 You personally what?

 I’d personally grow rhubarb mainly for just the leaves.

 Yeah, you love the look of it, don’t you?

 Not so keen on the taste.

 I’m not so keen on the taste.

 With your rhubarb, how are you cooking it?

 What are you doing with it?

 Are there any dishes you might be able to turn?

 I’ve got several rhubarb.

 I’ve got from early to kind of mid-summer,

 though I’ve given up picking them now because they’re all going.

 I like to make chutney with them.

 I like to make cordial.

 I like to make wine as well as obvious stuff like crumble.

 I really like rhubarb compote and I’m a bit weird.

 I don’t need it very sweet.

 So if I’m making it just for me,

 I’ll just make the compote out of rhubarb

 and then I’ll add a little bit of sweetener if I feel like it.

 I could eat like just rhubarb and yoghurt.

 Yeah.

 But that’s not normal, I know.

 No, that sounds completely normal.

 And the leaves.

 So obviously the leaves are poisonous,

 but when you cut the leaves off,

 if you lay them under soft fruit,

 it helps to deter sawfly.

 So it’s harming nothing, but it’s a deterrent.

 Don’t know why it’s a deterrent, but it is.

 Interesting.

 I’d like to know what’s probably releasing some kind of chemical.

 Top tip.

 Yeah, very top tip.

 I got it from Alice Fowler.

 She knows her stuff.

 So then what would be your five favourite edible plants?

 Edible plants?

 Well, they were all edible.

 So we’d have to have a perennial kale

 because they are superb.

 Are you growing many perennial vegetables?

 Loads, yeah.

 What other ones do you grow?

 I grow perennial alliums, mostly because they’re cute.

 They’re not as productive as annual animals,

 but I particularly like the walking onions

 because they grow their children on their heads.

 They’re so amazing, aren’t they?

 Yeah, they’re really lovely.

 I grow the nine-star perennial broccoli

 that looks like a cauliflower sometimes.

 And I’ve got some artichoke plants, globe artichokes,

 because the last lot died.

 It just, they were in the wrong place.

 The last lot I put in here,

 I used to have them in my old garden.

 So they’re going in, but they’re too young to do much.

 I’ve got Jerusalem artichokes.

 Crosney, which is a kind of Chinese artichoke,

 looks like a giant maggot.

 Sounds lovely, doesn’t it?

 That’s the root you’re digging up.

 Yeah, so it’s like a tuber.

 Yakon, ochre, what else have I got?

 Obvious things like perennial bushes, trees,

 that kind of stuff.

 Asparagus?

 Asparagus, yeah, I’ve got asparagus

 in the polytunnel and outside the polytunnel.

 When I moved here,

 someone who has a small holding on the next hill along,

 recommended in Wales, grow asparagus in the polytunnel.

 Works really well.

 So that is an early and consistent crop,

 because our springs generally are pretty damp.

 And I find compared with the outside asparagus,

 it’s much more productive.

 Because they don’t like it so damp.

 Clearly not.

 And also it’s the light thing.

 So again, it’s a bit more overcast here

 than it is, say, in Somerset,

 where all my asparagus grew outside.

 Okay, that’s very interesting.

 But other, yeah, so we’ll have asparagus then,

 so that’s a really good one.

 Are you doing anything interesting with that in the kitchen?

 Oh no, just eating it.

 I do make quiches with it because we’ve got ducks.

 Oh, delicious, yes.

 But mostly it’s so-

 Can I just clarify that?

 When you say because you’ve got ducks,

 you mean as in the eggs rather than the duck.

 Yeah, I don’t stuff the duck with asparagus and roast it.

 No, that tends to be fairly terminal for the duck.

 I would say so.

 And I’ve only got four, so yeah.

 According to the fox, they are a buffet to be consumed.

 But they’re Welsh harlequins,

 so they are a good bird for whales.

 They look beautiful.

 And they actually are a dual purpose bird.

 So if I wanted to eat them,

 you can raise these for eggs and meat,

 but mine are egg layers.

 I don’t tell them they could be meat.

 They wouldn’t like that.

 And they have control as well.

 Yeah, but I keep them in a very large enclosure

 because it’s very rural here.

 And everybody, when I got the ducks,

 everyone in the village said,

 oh yes, I used to have ducks.

 Because of the fox?

 Because of the foxes, yeah.

 Right, lovely.

 But I mean foxes have to eat

 and they’re useful.

 They help keep rat populations down,

 that kind of thing.

 But they’re not eating my ducks.

 Keeping the equilibrium, really.

 So we have perennial kale asparagus.

 Oh, right.

 Brussels sprouts.

 Love Brussels sprouts.

 I could eat Brussels sprouts forever.

 I eat them for breakfast.

 Wow, just neat?

 That’s lethal.

 No, no, they’re cooked.

 Yeah, but just on their own or with anything with them?

 Usually I cook them with other things.

 Onions, garlic, maybe some leftover potato.

 I’ve usually been up and doing for a few hours

 before I have breakfast.

 So usually by then, I want…

 It’s a bit of a brunch.

 Yeah, I want a big meal.

 That’s just because I like edible plants so much,

 I just want all of them.

 Yeah, I hear you.

 It’s very difficult.

 Leeks, because they’ll go well with things.

 And if you get leeks, they’re just so…

 I prefer leeks to onions, flavour-wise.

 And garlic.

 You can’t have a garden without garlic,

 in my humble opinion.

 And within garlic, I’ve got elephant,

 hard and soft neck, so I’m covering that spectrum.

 Very nice.

 Do you have a lot of garlic in your garden?

 Yeah, yeah.

 I grow those, the three kinds.

 In the polytunnel?

 Both at polytunnel and outside.

 So polytunnel because earlier, bigger crop

 and it doesn’t get rust for some reason,

 probably because there’s no rain.

 But yeah, inside and outside, grow a lot,

 and it goes in most things.

 Food-wise, well, as far as I’m concerned,

 it goes in absolutely everything.

 Yeah, I’m making some muffins later

 and I’m not going to put it in that.

 Really?

 It’s not so good with chocolate muffins, really.

 Oh, yeah, I’d probably even do that.

 My dad lived in America for years and years

 and there was a restaurant near where he lived

 called, oh gosh, what was it called?

 Something like the Stinking Rose.

 And everything on the menu had garlic in it.

 Oh my gosh, give me the address of that.

 Stinking Rose, San Francisco.

 But this was a long time ago, maybe 15 years,

 I was less there, I can’t remember.

 My mother’s Swiss, but we lived in the UK

 and when we were babies at that time,

 back in the 70s, me and my brother,

 people didn’t really eat garlic,

 certainly not around our way.

 But my mother, being Swiss, she ate loads of garlic

 and she fed us as babies with garlic

 and she would say how people would come

 with being their pram, people would come

 and they’d lean over and be like, oh, who’d you go?

 And they’d be like, oh, what’s that smell?

 And it was us, wafting garlic around the place.

 Oh, cross-infecting every corner.

 It’s an amazing plant.

 Do you have wild garlic?

 I have wild garlic as well, yes.

 Oh, lovely.

 And I’ve got society garlic,

 which only a little one, it lives near,

 I’ve got three step-over apple trees

 and it lives near one of those.

 And that is mainly because

 of the really beautiful flowers.

 Then what will be your one statement tree?

 So I would say cherry,

 but they just get eaten by birds.

 Can I have a peach?

 Because I grow peaches.

 Absolutely.

 But I grow them under cover here,

 but there, because it’s a walled garden,

 it’ll probably be all right.

 Nice and sheltered.

 Yes.

 And I’ll grow the same peach that I’ve,

 the big peach I’ve got here, big,

 it’s still small because it’s in a polytunnel,

 but the Welsh peach I’ve got

 is the Marquis of Anglesey peach.

 So that’s a Welsh heritage one.

 So I’d like that one.

 He’s definitely worth having a look at.

 He died at 27 from excess.

 He went through his entire fortune,

 but I’ve got his peach tree.

 Well, not his, a child of it, a descendant.

 Okay, yeah.

 They talked about peach trees actually

 just recently on Gardeners’ World

 about how you’ve got to start pruning,

 doing some summer pruning

 because they’re a stone fruit.

 I have to prune them probably more

 than one would in a outside

 because of the confines of the polytunnel.

 I’ve got three peaches and two nectarines in there.

 But yeah, you don’t want to be cutting them

 during cold weather essentially.

 So it will have, probably by September,

 hopefully that will be the last time I’ll prune it

 or prune them.

 Okay.

 But I don’t do it at all in the wintertime

 because you can get silver leaf.

 Yeah.

 Oh, okay.

 Yeah, very interesting.

 Do you have any citrus trees in your place?

 Murdered.

 Murdered by the Welsh weather.

 I moved house with citrus and they got murdered.

 Oh, they came with you.

 Oh, sad.

 The last one that died was the macroot lime

 and is no more.

 I might try and get another macroot lime

 because mostly that’s grown for the leaves.

 But yes, sadly-

 Not happy in Wales.

 They hated it.

 They thought this was rubbish.

 Is there anything you miss

 from the Somerset environment?

 That you found a lot easier and more ideal?

 I do like the challenge of growing things

 in a different situation.

 I mean, it’s things like in Somerset,

 squash and courgettes outside, always.

 Yet here you do some undercover as well,

 just in case.

 It’s a backup plan.

 Yeah, hence two polytunnels

 and friends who have an amazing garden

 up in Cumbria.

 I visited them and again,

 it was seeing what they’re growing undercover.

 This was like the first year or so that I lived here

 and seeing what they were growing undercover

 as routine in an environment like Cumbria.

 Otherwise you wouldn’t get it.

 So of course this year I planted

 one of my favourite types of courgette

 in one of the polytunnels.

 So I would definitely get a good crop of courgettes

 and it’s huge.

 It’s the biggest courgette I’ve ever seen plant.

 Is it a marrow?

 Wow.

 No, well, it tries to.

 It gave me a couple of marrows

 so they’ll become chutney.

 But it’s just enormous

 because of course the weather’s been amazing

 from the perspective of a courgette.

 My outside courgettes,

 some of them have been fantastic.

 Other ones,

 if they’re in a part of the garden

 where normally it would be okay,

 but they’re too close, say,

 to I’ve got hedgerows

 and it’s too close to the hedgerows

 is drier and those ones are rubbish.

 So that’s been the interesting

 seeing things which would normally thrive

 in that area,

 not because of the dry weather.

 I don’t mind.

 I think it’s always interesting

 to see how things grow different.

 It’s good to be adaptable.

 It’s using your brain,

 which again is going back to that AI thing of

 I think it’s useful to work things out

 for ourselves.

 If you think about how curious babies are

 and they’re problem solving all the time,

 we need to keep that going,

 keep that imagination

 and that curiosity going.

 Sorry, my legs.

 My legs just got into cramp.

 It’s all right.

 I’ll stand up and it’ll be fine in a minute.

 Are you all right?

 Do you need me to push your toes up?

 Something like that, yeah.

 It’s my thigh.

 I don’t normally get my thigh in cramp.

 I must have been sitting funny.

 I think basically I’m sleeping awkwardly

 because of the heat.

 Does your house get very hot?

 Not too much downstairs

 because the floors slate,

 but upstairs it does.

 Right, we’ll do the rest of it

 with me standing up for a bit.

 So we spoke to Dermot Gavin

 and he’s involved with an AI company

 who are involved with gardening

 and they’re looking at this AI

 that is basically a set of probes and cameras

 that will be around your garden

 and they will then tell you

 this needs watering,

 this needs pruning.

 And some people would absolutely love that

 and I say fair enough,

 if that’s what you want, fine.

 But also it is quite nice looking at them

 and thinking this, you know,

 oh, this is looking a bit peaky,

 let’s sort it out

 because then you’re walking around,

 you interact.

 Maybe if you were away quite a bit,

 would be quite a good thing

 because then you’d have a nap on your phone,

 wouldn’t you?

 Water the geraniums.

 That’s a good point actually.

 I could see that

 because like it’s always so worrying

 to even step away from your garden

 for a weekend

 in the kind of height of late spring summer

 because everything needs looking after.

 So I could see that potentially

 being interesting in that respect.

 You need Sweetpea,

 you need Stephanie’s son.

 Yes.

 I mean, that is another thing.

 I’ll send you Theo.

 If you could, that would be great.

 But I think again,

 it would depend who was funding

 that kind of technology

 because if it’s just a thing

 where it lets you know

 this needs water,

 then that’s great.

 But if this needs feeding

 and the owner of the app

 is a commercial plant feed company,

 then you could end up with people

 spending a fortune on…

 This leg is painful.

 A fortune on plant feed

 when you don’t really need it.

 And overfeeding and that.

 So it’s like anything.

 It’s who’s paying for it,

 who’s behind it.

 Oh, that sounds really dodgy, doesn’t it?

 I’m not being all conspiracy.

 But those factors are important.

 I completely agree

 because just like there’s always

 a reason behind creating a business

 and there’s always going to be

 a little thing of,

 oh, well, if people start thinking

 they need this,

 well, then I’m going to set up

 a company to do with this.

 Fill that gap.

 I’ll fill that gap.

 So yeah, it’s completely understandable.

 But I think also it’s a bit like with

 the question of,

 or do you train in horticulture

 or do you just learn on the job?

 When you train in horticulture,

 one could say that,

 oh, you’re learning a lot of theory.

 You’re doing it very textbook style.

 Whereas when you’re learning on the job,

 you’re understanding your plants

 a bit more because you’re so hands on.

 I mean, that’s apprenticeships

 generally, isn’t it?

 There’s real advantage.

 And then benefits of both.

 Yeah.

 Real advantage of getting your hand.

 If you’re a carpenter, for example,

 learning how to plane a piece of wood

 or actually getting stuck in.

 And also it’s a different way of thinking.

 It’s how your brain functions.

 So some people are very good

 with more booky things

 and then other people, you know,

 may struggle with that

 but are actually really practical

 and the physical stuff,

 it just comes straight to them.

 Yeah, exactly.

 Depends who you are as a person.

 Exactly.

 I didn’t do.

 I have no formal training

 in horticulture at all.

 It was entirely learned working.

 So it’s almost like an apprenticeship.

 But I do have formal training

 in other things, you know, so.

 Yeah.

 Well, English literature you mentioned earlier.

 Yeah.

 Well, I’m a qualified teacher.

 So I don’t do it

 but I have the qualifications.

 Well, I do do it

 but I don’t teach in schools anymore.

 Would you like a pond or a pool

 and what plant would you have in that area?

 So the pool, is it for swimming in?

 Yes.

 Oh yeah, one of those.

 Like a swimming pool.

 Yeah, totally.

 What style?

 I’m not wildlife friendly

 but I’d love a swimming pool.

 Yeah, I get that.

 But I have one of those swimming ponds.

 Yes.

 Those, yeah, that you have.

 So you’ve got then the reeds and everything

 so I can be swimming

 and the frogs can come along.

 Yep.

 Yeah, absolutely.

 My ducks.

 Actually, the ducks can’t go on there

 because they’d eat the frogs.

 Oh, no ducks.

 Do you have a pond where you are?

 I have, yeah, ponds.

 My ducks don’t go there.

 I have a couple of-

 Is it fenced off?

 They can’t get to it

 because it would be gone.

 They’d eat the lot.

 Really?

 They’d be really happy.

 They’d love it

 but they’d eat the frogs.

 Do they have their own pond?

 They have their own, yeah.

 They have and ponds

 that I can empty out

 so it’s not stagnant water for them.

 And they love that.

 It’s important for ducks to cover,

 you know, submerge their heads.

 Yeah, sure.

 Absolutely.

 So what sized style pond

 will we be going for?

 So one of those large,

 if I can get some proper swimming,

 be good for my leg.

 Some large, natural swimming pool.

 So we’re talking like a 25-metre swimming pool

 that kind of length.

 Yeah, that’d be fine.

 Like the one, they cost a flipping fortune.

 That’s just why nobody except the rich has one

 but that’s what I’d like in there.

 It’s an acre garden.

 There’s plenty of room.

 So what costs a flipping fortune?

 Swimming ponds do?

 Swimming ponds, yeah.

 Really?

 Are they very expensive?

 They’re expensive to build

 but less expensive to maintain?

 You’d think they’d be less expensive to maintain, yes.

 Once they’re up, then presumably you’ve got

 the plants are creating the right environment.

 They’re doing the work, aren’t they?

 So are we having it really

 so that you can’t kind of see it?

 It’s kind of well-submerged.

 It’s formed into the landscape,

 if you know what I mean.

 It’s not just like a hard…

 Well, I don’t want to fall in.

 No.

 So I need to be able to see it.

 Yeah, so it looks really natural.

 It’s got natural planting

 but there’s still enough room for me

 to swim up and down.

 Okay.

 And what will be your plant for that area,

 if you could choose just one?

 The main one.

 Lilies.

 Any colour?

 All of them.

 Different colours so it looks nice.

 Well then, final question for your dream garden

 is what would be your favourite seating area?

 So what will you be sitting on?

 A drink to have of your choice

 and a plant to have by your side?

 I like something where you can put your feet up.

 So a loungy type, a swinging loungy type thing.

 I saw some at one of the shows this summer

 so it was kind of swinging

 but there was a bit that you could put your feet up.

 Right.

 I haven’t seen that before.

 What was it hanging from?

 From a frame or from a tree?

 Yeah, it was from a frame.

 Okay.

 So something like that made out of wood.

 Oh, that sounds amazing.

 I’d like that

 because I do like sticking my feet up

 when you’d like.

 To drink, I would like a…

 Oh, I only had it for the first time at the weekend.

 Aperol, is that what it’s called?

 Aperol Spritz.

 Yum.

 The problem with those is it’s lovely, isn’t it?

 And then you’re like,

 oh, actually this is alcohol.

 Yeah, you must remember that.

 And the plant near me is lemon verbena.

 Oh, we’ve had that before.

 It’s a great choice.

 Yeah, lovely.

 And whereabouts in your garden is this swinging chair

 with your feet up going to be?

 Probably so I can see the view.

 If we’re having this view of the bleakness.

 The bleak view, yeah.

 The bleak view.

 I’d like to be swinging looking at that,

 looking in the distance.

 Okay, okay.

 Very cool.

 Right.

 I’m going to read back to your dream garden.

 Got anything wrong or there’s anything you want to change.

 So garden boundary,

 we’re going with a walled acre garden,

 quite high but not super high

 so that you can’t like see the sun.

 It’s just like a six foot about.

 You’ll have a spade fruit trees up there.

 It’s going to be in a Welsh stone, so grey,

 and you want to have a bleak landscape view beyond

 with the sea in the distance, a bit closer than.

 Yeah, bleak as in like, you know,

 Yorkshire moors, not like burn out and Mad Max kind of landscape.

 No, not even slightly like that.

 The good type of bleak.

 The good bleak.

 Good bleak, yeah.

 Exactly.

 Then you wanted a sheen house

 so you can charge your loppers in there.

 You’re going to have in the shed part of it,

 reasonably tidy.

 That’s going to be in a nice wood colour.

 Then you’re going to have a massive greenhouse,

 lots of vents, beds and staging,

 and that will be with a blue frame.

 Your five ornamentals, we have edible magnolias,

 mulberry, quince, medlar and rhubarb.

 Your five edibles, perennial kale,

 asparagus, brussel sprouts, leeks and garlic.

 Your one statement tree is a peach tree,

 the Marquis of Anglesey.

 Then you wanted a swimming pond really large

 so you can swim lengths, natural planting,

 sunken with all different coloured water lilies.

 Then you’re going to have a swinging lounge chair

 in wood with an apple spritz,

 a lemon verbena next to you,

 and you’ll be looking at the nice bleak view beyond.

 There we go.

 Yeah, there we are.

 That sounds good.

 The dream garden.

 Yeah.

 The dream garden.

 Well, thank you so much, Stephanie.

 It’s been a joy talking to you.

 You’re going to be at Gardeners’ World Autumn Fair,

 aren’t you?

 Yeah, on Saturday.

 On the Saturday.

 So if anybody wants to catch Stephanie,

 they can do.

 That’s in Essex, isn’t it?

 Yeah.

 That’s been a good old chitchat with Stephanie.

 Thank you.